Irish Air Ambulances

[Vulcan]

Not exactly an Air Corps subject but there isn't a section for general Irish aviation.  Does anyone know what choppers the two new air ambulance services due to start next year will be using?  I am presuming they are both seperate as the one to be based in Kerry is to be a charity and the one to be based in Galway seems to be a privately operated one run by Blackrock Amulance  Services and someone else that I can't think of at the moment and will be available for hire to the HSE and private bodies. A picture the Galway advertiser of the Galway based ship showed the inside and it seemed to quite roomy so maybe it's a good size helicopter..

[Fouga]

The Galway one resembles Airwolf... '>

[SousaTeuszii]

Cant see it 'taking off' myself. At a time when the HSE wont hire porters I cant see them providing staff for air ambulances and personnally if its a choice between donating to keep cancer care or an over hyped ambulance Id go for the cancer care any day.
Sort out the ground ambulances first before wasting money on an over priced ambulance that can only operate in good weather and can only deal with one patient at a time. More non hospital based comunity ambulances would provide a better response for much less money.
ST

[Vulcan]

Quote (SousaTeuszii @ 06 Nov. 2007,07:10)

Cant see it 'taking off' myself. At a time when the HSE wont hire porters I cant see them providing staff for air ambulances and personnally if its a choice between donating to keep cancer care or an over hyped ambulance Id go for the cancer care any day. Sort out the ground ambulances first before wasting money on an over priced ambulance that can only operate in good weather and can only deal with one patient at a time. More non hospital based comunity ambulances would provide a better response for much less money. ST

Some good points there.  I found the article in the Galway Advertiser so here it is.

Ireland’s first private air ambulance,
which will be based at Galway Airport,
will take to the skies in March.
The service, which will be provided by
Executive Helicopters and the Blackrock
Ambulance Service, will dramatically
reduce the time it takes to transfer
critically ill patients from Galway to
Dublin hospitals by well over an hour.
Ambulances normally take at least two
hours to do this while the travel time for
the helicopter service would be 43
minutes.
The new service will cover the western
seaboard and will signal an end to the
fact that Ireland was the only country in
Europe without a dedicated air
ambulance service - it has been in
existence in Germany for more than 30
years.
A spokesperson for HeliMed Ireland
said the air ambulance is capable of
flying day or night but will operate
during daylight hours initially until
hospitals have helipads fitted with
landing lights for night operations.
It will be staffed by a pilot and two
paramedics and can carry two patients. It
will be available for hire by the Health
Service Executive, charities, for special
events (sports, festivals) and individuals.
The benefits of providing a dedicated
air ambulance service are significant,
according to the spokesperson.
“Trauma patients receive faster
paramedic treatment and subsequent
specialist care, arriving at the
appropriate treatment centre much
sooner than if transported by land
ambulance. Patient outcomes can be
improved, less medical deterioration
occurs, potentially therefore in-hospital
periods will be reduced.
“The use of an air ambulance
conveying patients who need to be
transferred to out of area hospitals
improves the availability of the existing
land ambulance and medical resources.
The ability to transfer ICU patients at
times of hospital overload are greatly
improved. The air ambulance represents
a significant gain in the provision of
emergency/urgent health care
transportation within Ireland.”
The spokesperson outlines that air
ambulances are not new. “They are
available in all other European countries,
including those in the former eastern
European countries. Air ambulance
operations in these countries play an
important role in the infrastructure of
health care transportation.”


This may clarify their intentions better than I could.  The HSE already pay an absolute fortune for ambulance transfer to dublin as they pay by the hour ( apparently).  It would also free up the Coast Guard helicopter.

[SousaTeuszii]

I hate to say this but it is not a dedicated Air Ambulance helicopter. It is a charter helicopter which can be used for air ambulance, big difference! It could be anywhere in the country when the HSE require it , i.e. another sporting event etc so it is far from dedicated.
Also why not operate at night from the pads that do have lights, ie Castlebar. Ill tell you why, because he does not have permission to fly night time VMC and there is no other way into or out of the pad. Also, how would he cross the country at night in low icing level conditions. He wont be able to go IFR and he cant go VMC. Its no wonder its day time only and hes blaming it on the hospitals.
Big fudge of the capabilities here! Dont believe all thats in the press.
ST

[Flyboy]

I agree with Sousa, I am not trying to pour cold water over the idea etc, but for example the London HEMS chopper can be called out to a car crash on the M25 or any emergency requiring the involvement of a chopper to reduce the time that it takes medics to reach the accident scene and recover the patient to the hospital A&E. The Galway version does not seem to be going to operate in this way. It will of course be very helpful in transferring patients between Galway and Dublin or wherever but it does not seem from reading that article that it will be available on a "standby" basis to go to accident scenes. It will be interesting to see how it works out.

[Tech Crew]

I also agree with the previous comments. This is basically an air ambulance service quite similar to what the Air Corps has been providing. However, I'm sure there will be a nice big bill for the hospital for each job done unlike the Air Corps who dont pass on the cost.

On a similar note Our Lady's Childrens Hospital in Crumlin has started using their helipad again and have set up an agreement with the Air Corps to transfer seriously ill kids from around the country to Crumlin. The EC135's have been in and out Crumlin quite a bit recently both training and on jobs.

[Flyboy]

So if the Air Corps still provide this service why would an hospital in Galway use this new service, which I am sure will be charged at current commercial costs when the Air Corps will provide the same transfer at no cost ?

[Vulcan]

I tend to agree with the things that are being said here as well.  Again not too sure what helicopter they will use for this service, but if what they say about carrying 2 patients with all the ICU equipment to support the on the flight and 2 paramedics and having seen the picture from the inside, it would have to be a decent sized helicopter.  They are operating this Sikorsky S61N at the moment ( I believe its the one that operated the passenger service between Penzance and the Scilly Isles for a while)



If this is the one they will be using and its on lease then it aint coming cheap so like what has been said, I doubt if it would be a dedicated Air Ambulance.  Also, I think it was said, not in the article here, that the fact that a lot of the major hospitals don't have helipads, Cork hospital for one would tend to hinder the service.  I was under the impression that most of them did?

[SousaTeuszii]

Wont be an S61. The Coastguard S61s can only land in helipads for SAR jobs where life is at risk. They cannot do hospital to hospital transfers due to performance concerns and pads not being big enough with clear areas around them.
I heard that the machine was a 222. Cant see that having the performance to 'legally' operate out of pads with all that gear either.
ST

[Dublin Spotter]

The Bell 222 is used all around the world as an air ambulance & HEMS aircraft.

[Vulcan]

There was a black helicopter very similar to that flying around here around the time they announced the service.  Maybe thats what it was.

[SousaTeuszii]

Bell 222 requires a helipad area of 30m*30m to perform legal helipad departures. http://www.iaa.ie/safe_re....nes.pdf

However this is only to allow the aircraft to reject back onto the area below. In the event of an engine failure after rotation the aircraft would then descend to within approx 35ft of the pad. At this point it must climb on one engine from 35ft up to a safe altitude above local obstacles. I am not sure of the Bell 222s performance but comparable twins could use up to 300m to get to 200ft.
Effectively this means that the pad area would have to be 30m*30m and have about 300m of area with low objects to allow for a single engine departures. I dont think there is a pad like that in the country.
Not necessarily a problem with the 222 as all aircraft will have this problem to greater or lesser extent, depending on performance, in Irish pads.
ST

[warthog]

hmmm...four ex mil dauphins would be great for this role!










 

[SousaTeuszii]

Im afraid the Dauphin would have exactly the same problem. Yes the Air Corps used them for this but remember that they are not constrained by JAR OPs 3. Again it is probably more an issue with the pads.
ST