Air Corps receive first AW139

[SousaTeuszii]

Unfortunately the 139s have only been purchased for domestics tasks and are not considered suitable for overseas operations. That is of course in their current guise. These, just purchased aircraft, would have to undergo serious modifications to make them suitable for operations in potentialy hostile areas, i cant see that happening any time soon.
Secondly the UN pay for and provide air support for overseas missions. They will not pay for indigenous air support.
Thirdly the Air Corps do not have the capacity for long term deployments overseas. At best they could possibly do a six month tour before withdrawal. That does not seem like the average length of a UN mission.
All this added up leads me to believe that unfortunately the IAC will not be putting helis or any other aircraft overseas. As for domestic tasks while 6 aircraft would be great 4 is more then enough. Sorry

[Old Redeye]

Souza,

I am sure you are correct about the intent for the 139's - basically domestic training platforms, casevac and VIP.  However, I must contest the notion that "the UN pay for and provides air support for overseas missions."  Yes, if all that is required are questionable, old, day VFR only Mi-8's flown by hired Bulgarians.  If I was a force commander, or an Irish national contngent commander, that would not be good enough in many circumstances, such as a combat medevac, and special operations support, or any kind of support where there is anything like actual armed opposition.  Secondly, Ireland already has a history of non-UN operations, such as Kosovo, and this practice will continue.  I suppose when Ireland finally signs up for the EU Nordic Plus battlegroup, there will be an assumption that someone else will provide the necessary battlefield helicopter assets, and theater airlift while we're at it.  Unfortunate indeed.  Shortsighted and cheap is more like it.

[SousaTeuszii]

Old Redeye,
You are spot on. If I was on the ground I would perfer home grown aerial support. Unfortunately this is provided in 90% of UN missions by UTAIR. These have included mi8s, 26s, and even 24s. Not a range of helis that could be fielded by most nations let allow a penny pinching one like ours.
Unfortunately the AB139s are not capable of combat operations of any kind. They are a kin to the tactics in the early days of Vietnam, tatics that lost 5500 helicopters in 10 years. Thats 1.5 machines per day.
The construction of military aircraft as evolved by a huge amount, unfortunately this countrys attitude is still in the 'Emergency' i.e. why pay for a military when somebody else is willing to do your dirty work.

[Broc]

i'm told the 'shoot me orange' was only temporary and was removed shortly after acceptance. Thank christ for that, it looked like the wonderly wagon there for a second

[SousaTeuszii]

Thank god for that!
Although it would have been fun to see Judge at the controls with old da Lambert behind on of the MAGs

[Hess]

With referance Wonderly Wagon maybe it would be more combat capable than that green painted load of civilian crap!

[SousaTeuszii]

Lots of them there wagons survive in areas of this country that I wouldnt bring a Blackhawk

[Hess]

Yea! The Galway Races (August) and the Oyster Festival (September) brutal combat environments.........

[SousaTeuszii]

Its Confirmed!
The 'shoot me orange' windows are already removed and investigations are ongoing into the replacement of the red ELT with something a little less conspicuous.
ST

[Old Redeye]

What's the point of machine guns and green paint if Sousa's assumptions are correct - that the IAC will never deploy tactical helicopters on overseas missions?  Total waste.  Keep the pretty white flying helmets and go back to royal blue flight suits and dayglo orange paint schemes in keeping with a service devoted more to air shows than military ops.

Never say never.  The IAC should be prepared with the proper equipment, training and attitude to perform combat operations overseas, and there definetely should not be a formal prohibition against doing so.  When conditions are right it will happen - probably out of dire necessity at short notice.  

For example, as I alluded to earlier, imagine the hue and cry if Irish soldiers caught in an ambush or by an IED die because they couldn't be medevaced or reinforced at night in poor weather by the on-scene UN Mi-8's flown by Bulgarians.  Or RW assets are unable to conduct ops to free Irish hostages on an overseas mission that are later killed; or a massacre of civilians a la Rwanda occurs; or any number of other unpleasant scenarios resulting from UN helos being unwilling or unable to do the job.

The right thing to do is a follow-on order for 4-5 A149's to provide the capability to deploy a 3-4 aircraft detachment as part of a multi-national force - preferably aligned, including combined training, with Nordic Plus EU Battlegroup assets = Swedish Super Pumas, Finnish NH-90's and Norwegian 412's.  Pooling these assets solves the queston of support for multiple rotations over time - i.e., Finn and Irish air assets for one nine month rotation, followed by Swedish and Norwegian assets for the next, and so on.

Bear in mind a battalion task force is the basic building block for the EU BG's, with the ability to grow into brigade TF's.  Given the world in which we unfortunately find ourselves, the BG's will deploy.  If not Lebanon again, then Afghansitan, or Darfur, or Uganda, or Somalia again, or some place we haven't even heard of yet.  Ireland will either contribute fully and effectively or it won't.

[Pink Panther]

Quote (SousaTeuszii @ 29 Aug. 2006,10:59)

Its Confirmed! The 'shoot me orange' windows are already removed and investigations are ongoing into the replacement of the red ELT with something a little less conspicuous. ST

ST,
The whole purpose of the orange ELT is that it is  conspicuous '>, if its going to be painted green for arguments sake what is the point of having it there in the first place. I am just wondering are these heli's going to be a mish mash job (civie military hybrid), has anyone else spotted a military heli fitted with an ELT that is a civie requirement on some aircraft.Any thoughts.

[Shamrock145]

Perhaps the orange is a concession to our northern brethern ..hay  

When Eddie Irvine started in Formula 1, he had an orange helmet with green strips. When asked why the orange helmet, his reply was along the lines of "we have an affinity for that colour where I come from" ... the interviewer then asked, so why the green stripes ... Irvine's answer "that's just to stop the other side shooting at me" ... Perhaps the strategic placing of the orange on the 139's follows the same logic!  

...145

[Pink Panther]

Nice one   .

[SousaTeuszii]

PP,
The ELT is an acoutstic search asset, not a visual one. As I said before if you track it down and need to see it to find the crash site then god help those on board. It makes no sense to have it painted red on a green military aircraft.
ST

[sealion]

Perhaps having all these orange bits on a new aircraft are coloured in such a way for certification purposes only? Remember this aircraft is the first AW139.
Once these aircraft have been certified, any emergency equipment, painted in bright colours to assist the certification process, can be returned to a normal non psychadelic colour?

Again, lets save the complaining until we have something to complain about. They havent even arrived on irish soil yet.