Post by: Tony Kearns on November 28, 2006, 06:37:45 pm
Post by: Tony Kearns on November 28, 2006, 06:40:27 pm
Post by: Shamrock145 on November 28, 2006, 06:45:10 pm
Seriously though, the first pic looks great. What date will the Alouettes offically retire? Do we know yet if the new machines will inherit the "Alpha" call sign too?
...145
Post by: Tony Kearns on November 28, 2006, 06:45:18 pm
Post by: Snapper on November 28, 2006, 07:43:18 pm
"Alpha 274"
"Alpha 275"
Post by: Old Redeye on November 29, 2006, 08:30:04 am
Post by: Lude on November 29, 2006, 02:17:04 pm
I know this is a bit off topic but I saw one of the new AW-139's around Galway around 11:30 today interupting my valuable study time! Great noise off it alright.
They're wasting no time getting out and about anyway,
great to see.
Post by: Old Redeye on November 29, 2006, 02:40:55 pm
Post by: SARMAN on November 30, 2006, 07:54:06 pm
196 is looking very well sad day to see that go what sort of cash would I have to put up to get my hands on it, its a classic.. (not sure the bank manager would agree)
Sorry if I was OTT on the previous thread and to answer ST, I am a very very happy SARMAN!!!
Peace ST
Post by: on December 02, 2006, 01:15:08 am
Post by: Old Redeye on December 02, 2006, 07:10:20 am
Post by: pym on December 03, 2006, 04:07:28 pm
According a poster on IMO:
| Quote |
| in todays sunday indo the minister for defence stated the option for the next two helis has been approved by gov bringing total of AB139's to 6 for AC. |
http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/showthr....t142964
Hopefully this is part of a concerted development plan for the Air Corps, and not the last purchase of new helicopters for some time.
Post by: Old Redeye on December 04, 2006, 08:43:56 am
Two more orderd early in 2007 will be for delivery in 2009, maybe even late 2008 unless they are 149's, in which case delivery is probably not likely before later in 2009 or even into 2010. A final two ordered in 2008 would be delivered in 2010 or early 2011. Probably about the right rate of build-up for the IAC from this point, and the right spread of expenditure.
Post by: SousaTeuszii on December 04, 2006, 12:39:05 pm
Tee Hee Hee!
Post by: pym on December 04, 2006, 02:31:57 pm
| Quote (Old Redeye @ 03 Dec. 2006,23:43) |
| Indeed Pym! The optimum force is eight 139's/149's in order to have a deployable four-ship detachment. But there is no rush, other than fears of the government changing and/or losing interest. It will take the next several years to fully absorb the new capbilities of the 139's and grow fully qualified tactical helo crews. They don't even have FLIR systems installed yet. Two more orderd early in 2007 will be for delivery in 2009, maybe even late 2008 unless they are 149's, in which case delivery is probably not likely before later in 2009 or even into 2010. A final two ordered in 2008 would be delivered in 2010 or early 2011. Probably about the right rate of build-up for the IAC from this point, and the right spread of expenditure. |
There's actually an interesting discussion on deployment on the IMO site. I think the general consensus is that these 139's should be retained for the internal security role and training.
They are powerful, capable heli's but are at their heart a civilian helicopter and thus don't have alot of the features of a specific military type - ala the 149.
I'd love to know what the lads who work/worked in the Don think would need to be done to make deployment possible, i.e. whether extra bodies would be required etc.
Post by: SousaTeuszii on December 04, 2006, 02:55:02 pm
With the right add on equipment a civil helicopter can be made capable of military operations, a good example is the Puma. These machines would however still be more normally found in 'limited war' scenearios, ie a threat exists but there is not full conflict. It could be argured that this will typically be scenearios that Irish troops will find themselves in.
The amount of addons again are dictated by the threat, ie ballistic protection, RWR, chaff, flares etc. Remember that all of these cost money and more importantly add weight to the aircraft. Possibly the most important aspect is the aircrafts ability to survive a critical component failure. The AW139 has this in buckets when it comes to engines and I imagine that although the not tested or specified the rotors and flight controls have some ballistic tolerance.
There is currently a very good article in Rotor and Wing (available on line) talking about the differences between civil aircraft pushed into a military role and purebreed military helicopters. If you get a chance have a read they basically adopt the attitude that the recent purchase of the EC145 LUH is a continuation of the watering down of Mil Spec requirements and the trend should be reversed.
On a slightly different note I believe that the personnel in No 3 can make these aircraft and crews capable of overseas operations however the biggest hurdle they will face are the Government. The Government refer to the White paper on Defence for everything and it states that the Air Corps have no overseas role. This paper also impacts all equipment purchases even though the equipment may still be in use long after the paper changes.
I wish all the folks there the best for the future and hope to see them overseas in a not too distant future but I think the issue of civil Vs military helicopters will be the easiest obstacle to overcome.
ST
Post by: Flyboy on December 04, 2006, 05:45:03 pm
Post by: sealion on December 04, 2006, 06:12:23 pm
| Quote |
| €24m chopper deal to revamp Force Sunday Independent 03/12/2006 DON LAVERY TWO more high-tech Anglo-Italian armed helicopters are to be bought for the Air Corps in a €24m deal in the latest revamp of the force's outmoded fleet. Defence Minister Willie O'Dea is to indicate that an option to buy two more AW-139 helicopters, which will have a primary role of operating and training with Ireland's Special Forces, is to be taken up before the end of the year. The move comes after the first two of four AW-139 helicopters ordered in an earlier €48m contract were shown to the media last week. One of the helicopters displayed at a blustery Baldonnel was kitted out in a Special Forces role with two GPMG machine guns manned by air gunners, and seats for eight Army Rangers along with abseiling equipment. A second helicopter was configured as a 15-seat transporter. Two other helicopters ordered as part of the earlier contract will be delivered in spring next year. The Minister resisted the urge to sit behind a machine gun and instead went for a flight in the new aircraft. He will announce that a down payment will be made on the two optional aircraft before the end of the year. Otherwise Ireland would miss its production slot for the AW-139, which is the best-selling helicopter in the medium twin-engine class in the world, and additional Irish aircraft would not be built until 2009/2010. The Air Corps is the first military force in the world to operate the AW-139. The latest plan to acquire more helicopters comes at the end of an unprecedented three-year spending spree which has seen orders placed for nearly €170m-worth of new aircraft. |
Post by: pym on December 04, 2006, 06:50:54 pm
| Quote (Flyboy @ 04 Dec. 2006,08:45) |
| Realistically can anyone forsee a situation where a helo in Ireland needs to be sent with two door guners. I can understand the requirement to deploy special ops troops to any part of the country quickly, but I hope they never have to go with door gunners. The only place I can see the door gunners required is on overseas deployment and if that happens then the "home" fleet is depleted. |
My, we have short memories.
There are still subversives in this country who are hell bent on destroying the progress made in the 6 counties over the last ten years.
While I dont think it's likely we'll see AW-139's chasing CIRA members down the M50 with door guns blazing.. there are other scenarios where they could be used.
If I remember correctly the IRA specifically threatened the Air Corps heli's in the 70's/80's with being shot down. I could be wrong on this but I do remember mention of it?
I'm sure the CIRA/RIRA/"OnH"/ACMEIRA would, given certain circumstances be perfectly capable of taking a pot shot at the Air Corps if, for example an AW-139 happened to disturb their training in a field in Donegal.
It'd be nice in such a scenario for the door gunners to, "let them know who daddy is". While the already disembarked ARW back up the Gardai in taking the dangerous bastards to justice.
[/slight whiff of waltering]
On a more every day note:
The guns and heli's let's face it, look really well - they're a decent recruiting tool.
They also provide a realistic training tool.
And if a scenario overseas demanded it, they could be deployed.
Post by: SousaTeuszii on December 04, 2006, 07:58:12 pm
Sealion, Generally when options on aircraft are in place these are specific airframe nos. So you should be correct that they should follow close behind the others although I doubt if they have commenced construction yet otherwise the DoD would have had to 'piss or get off the pot' at a much eariler date.
Flyboy, Weapons such as those fitted to the AW139s are primarily for defensive pruposes and not attack operations. I could see an instance where the ARW are called in to an operation in Ireland that could concievablly require approach and landing in a 'hot' area. It is here that the door guns suppress the enemy to allow the troops disembark, reach cover and the heli depart with as little damage as possible. It is always a wish that such weapons are not needed but lets face it, if the ARW are already called in then the situation is likely to be very dangerous, it would be nice to have lead flying in both directions and not just one.
ST
Post by: pilatus on December 05, 2006, 10:56:22 am
Post by: papa 242 on December 05, 2006, 11:44:02 am
Quite low ground clearance,particularly for rough terrain ops, would be interesting to see where the FLIR would fit!.
Lovely looking aircraft though! Best of luck to all the crews and safe flying!
Post by: John K on December 05, 2006, 03:26:34 pm
I still can't see any passive threat detectors on the fuselage though. Any aircraft going into high threat areasthese days has to be fitted with missile detectors, chaff/flare dispensers, etc. So I doubt if they'd be deployed anywhere dangerous, unlike the troops on the ground!
Do they let 'techies' go on UN duties yet?
Post by: papa 242 on December 05, 2006, 06:42:38 pm
Never mind all that threat detection stuff!.... on a deployment,where would the Cha Club go??!!!
Post by: pilatus on December 05, 2006, 09:44:51 pm
Post by: John K on December 06, 2006, 01:37:53 pm
As for the 'cha' club, P242, they'd have to take along the little green bread wagon we used to use! Especially kitted out as a mobile workshop! With tools, a workbench, a vice, a cooker!, rig up the camo net at the back and it becomes invisible! (Unless they've got infra red!)
I still think the Puma was the best though! love your avatar, John.
Post by: Spook on December 08, 2006, 04:13:53 pm
Post by: Old Redeye on January 04, 2007, 11:10:55 am
Post by: clog on January 04, 2007, 11:55:43 am
Great job, keep going Minister O'Dea!!
Post by: Flyboy on January 04, 2007, 12:18:05 pm
Post by: Pink Panther on January 04, 2007, 05:33:40 pm
Post by: papa 242 on January 04, 2007, 10:41:31 pm
Post by: Flyboy on January 05, 2007, 08:56:50 am
How did it look, did it land ?
Post by: papa 242 on January 06, 2007, 12:07:53 am
Yes! live in Waterford and member of SAR Flt.at Airport.
Just caught one approach,did'nt land unfortunately'
Looks impressive!
Post by: Flyboy on January 09, 2007, 01:03:57 pm
Just interested as I originally come from Waterford, but now in the smoke of London.