Post by: matt_k on July 09, 2004, 03:11:04 pm
Post by: Frank on July 09, 2004, 03:18:17 pm
It will be a few years yet before the PC-9's will be formed into a display team.
The instructors are concentrating on getting themselves trained up on the new aircraft as well as training new instructors before cadet flying training really begins, then when all that is up and running they might look at forming a team.
Nothing in the near future I'm afraid.
Regards,
Frank.
Post by: Flyboy on July 09, 2004, 04:10:58 pm
Post by: Guinness on July 09, 2004, 05:31:18 pm
"Grey Panthers"
" Team Eire"
What about these?
Guinness
Post by: FiannaFail on July 09, 2004, 08:06:28 pm
FiannaFail
Post by: Guinness on July 09, 2004, 09:59:18 pm
Nice for a team of GREY (!!!!) aircraft.
Just the same as calling the US Navy team the "Yellow Angels"
Kind regards,
Guinness
Post by: Silver on July 10, 2004, 12:14:30 am
or something with 'Celtic' in it perhaps ?
Post by: John K on July 10, 2004, 12:26:27 am
Post by: matt_k on July 10, 2004, 04:20:04 pm
Did ya ever fly them?
Post by: John K on July 12, 2004, 11:30:28 am
'Pity there was nothing like the Air Cadets in Dublin when I was in my early teens!
Post by: matt_k on July 12, 2004, 03:20:31 pm
Post by: matt_k on July 12, 2004, 10:32:29 pm
Post by: Silver on July 13, 2004, 04:17:52 am
The AC public relations office (or the museum) may still have copies of this video available.
.......Oh, and there was also an AC CD produced that year - includes pics of the Swallows (not sure about movie).
Silver.
Post by: alpha foxtrot 07 on July 13, 2004, 04:19:49 am
Post by: Fouga on July 14, 2004, 07:58:39 pm
Post by: John K on July 15, 2004, 01:59:41 pm
I'll let you know how the Belgian Fouga does. JK
Post by: matt_k on July 15, 2004, 03:40:01 pm
Post by: John K on July 19, 2004, 02:47:06 pm
the Fougas were great for aerobatics! The weather was crap at Fairford I didn't get to see the Belgian Fouga, the only stuff I did see airbourne was a Tornado, Mirage and Jaguar and the B1, the Tornado was spectacular in the damp air! you could see the shockwave forming on the protuding surfaces when he came in for a really fast pass!
There were thousands of Air Cadets there, we brought up about 350 from Kent Wing.
Post by: Flyboy on July 19, 2004, 04:07:48 pm
Post by: matt_k on July 20, 2004, 10:21:33 am
Post by: Silver on July 23, 2004, 10:06:25 am
Post by: matt_k on July 23, 2004, 04:08:23 pm
Post by: Fouga on July 25, 2004, 09:24:34 pm
Post by: clan on July 25, 2004, 11:05:54 pm
Post by: Silver on July 25, 2004, 11:08:14 pm
'Team Air Corps' !
Post by: Fouga on July 26, 2004, 02:53:00 pm
Post by: Flyboy on July 27, 2004, 11:11:05 am
Post by: 202 on July 27, 2004, 12:24:34 pm
Post by: IAS on July 31, 2004, 07:48:53 pm
IAS
Post by: alpha foxtrot 07 on August 01, 2004, 04:47:02 pm
Post by: John K on August 01, 2004, 09:44:54 pm
Post by: clan on August 02, 2004, 12:21:35 pm
Post by: alpha foxtrot 07 on August 02, 2004, 03:48:01 pm
Post by: 202 on August 03, 2004, 11:30:15 am
Interested in previous post which indicated Vampires/Provosts/Alouettes and Dove flying over O'Connell street at the Easter/1916 commemoration parade. Must have looked and sounded great.
Post by: clan on August 03, 2004, 02:18:23 pm
Post by: Flyboy on August 03, 2004, 03:27:05 pm
Post by: clan on August 03, 2004, 10:33:10 pm
An opportunity missed yet again.
Post by: matt_k on August 04, 2004, 01:27:11 pm
Post by: 202 on August 04, 2004, 02:09:37 pm
It is simply not possible to compare the availability of army hardware (for starters there is far more of it) with the limited number of aircraft available on any given day.
And I think credit should be given to the AIII crew who performed a rare parachute team from a chopper.
So all and in all the IAC did very well (in fact other than having the vessel moored offshore the Naval Service had no presence on land).
LK
Post by: Fouga on August 04, 2004, 04:06:22 pm
Post by: clan on August 04, 2004, 10:37:50 pm
And I lied, today what appeared to be a single PC 9 flew over Galway quite high and fairly licking it, heading North West. I only think it was a PC 9, As it was single engined very light grey and really had the hammer down.
Post by: clan on August 04, 2004, 10:46:04 pm
Post by: clan on August 05, 2004, 09:40:57 am
As a public awareness excerise they fail badly, we might not have much, but what we do have show it off as best you can. This they do l not do in any shape or form. But I am only guessing here, but "if" there was an airshow on the East Coast I guess the number of displays both static and airborne would be a lot higher.
Post by: 202 on August 05, 2004, 05:54:22 pm
And although not part of the airshow proper the Garda helicopter was there or thereabouts too.
So all in all I think the IAC put in a respectable contribution and perhaps bona fide circumstances of personnel or aircraft availability on the day prevented it from being stronger; no doubt in another year there may be an even better showing.
And certainly taking the Defence Forces as a whole I think the turnout was excellent.
Post by: clan on August 05, 2004, 10:36:27 pm
Post by: FMolloy on August 06, 2004, 03:42:10 pm
Post by: matt_k on August 06, 2004, 04:17:55 pm
Post by: Flyboy on August 06, 2004, 04:36:29 pm
Post by: clan on August 06, 2004, 06:51:29 pm
Post by: FMolloy on August 06, 2004, 08:17:13 pm
There's been some major changes to the AC this year & the organisation is in a state of flux. If they didn't send more aircraft to Salthill it's because they were required elsewhere, were out for maintainance or the pilots were unavailable. Cut them some slack.
I am not saying that airshows & display teams are a waste of time. I agree that airshows are good PR, but you've got to remember that any appearance at them is subject to operational requirements.
The AC aren't there for our amusement.
Post by: clan on August 07, 2004, 10:52:56 am
So it is hard to explain to Jo Public why a brand new Hospital is lying idle because of lack of funds and then they read in the Newspaper air Corp to get Euro 50m for new helicopters which the Jo Public never get to see or know what they do.
So while I take your points on Board, something should have been worked out to out on a good show in Galway. Which is why other air Forces have display teams and why they send them around the world, PR starts at home.
Post by: FMolloy on August 07, 2004, 12:00:48 pm
Knowing 12 months in advance doesn't mitigate against operational requirements, aircraft breakdown or crew availability. What if the aircraft were suddenly needed elsewhere? What if there was a breakdown that couldn't be fixed in time? What if the crew assigned got sick & couldn't attend?
The AC's been appearing at airshows for years & it hasn't made much of a difference to their PR image, so missing one isn't the end of the world.
I'm sorry you were dissapointed by the poor turn-out, but there's more important things than air shows.
Post by: FMolloy on August 07, 2004, 12:06:14 pm
Post by: clan on August 07, 2004, 02:12:20 pm
And it is bloomin obvious they could have worked someone out at such short notice 12mths minimum.
They don't have a PR image, get the point that is been made.
They need to get one.
Post by: clan on August 07, 2004, 03:02:23 pm
Both of these people, are very proud of the DF and there roles in it. And both know current Air Corp Officers from College or from service overseas. Both attended the Airshow and loved it, and both complained about the Irish Contribution.
Post by: Imshi-Yallah on August 07, 2004, 04:59:28 pm
You children are why they coined the neologism aerosexual
Post by: sealion on August 07, 2004, 05:00:18 pm
| Quote (clan @ 07 Aug. 2004,06:02) |
| My Comment about intercerpting Jetliners was unfair and I take it back. But my Points remain the same. Also I would like to mention a conversation I had with one Ex Naval service, and one Serving Army Officer. Both could only name the Dauphin and A111 as current Air Corp craft as well as the Lear Jet. They knew there were more but did not know what they were. Army Officer, says and I quote. The Air Corp should be disbanded and we should ask the RAF for protection, they(air corp) have no decent equipment, and what they have they do not know how to use and they are 9 to 5 workers. The Ex Naval guy agreed, but he likes the Dauphin as he had some trips in it, plus the Blue plane looks pretty cool. These are guys with over 40 years combined service to the DF. If they do not know what the Air Corp have or do. How are the rest of us going to find out. Both of these people, are very proud of the DF and there roles in it. And both know current Air Corp Officers from College or from service overseas. Both attended the Airshow and loved it, and both complained about the Irish Contribution. |
Why would they need to know? In the real world there are more important things to worry about than memorise the inventory of the defence forces. There are many Serving soldiers who have no Idea what a panhard is..because they do not need to know. NS personell would only be familiar with those aircraft that they had worked with.
The 9 to 5 worker comment is particularly relevent to the naval service,who many times watched as the Dauphin returned to the don for tea while they continued on their patrol.
PR is the job of somebody like Cawley Nea. Defence of the state is the Job of the defence forces. Public demonstrations are something that can only be done if there is nothing better to do.
As for knowledge of matters military,could you name all the Ships in the NS without doing a Google? Could you then say who holds the position of master at arms? Can you tell me what an effer is?
I wont hold it against you if you dont,because you don't need to.
Post by: clan on August 07, 2004, 07:36:32 pm
Their point been and we have discussed this many times, the Naval service chap knows quite a lot about the Army and what they have and have not and what they want. The Army Officer was the same about the Naval Service. But neither could clearly identify what the Air Corp have equipment wise or what they did with it. And my point been, the Air Corp needs a higher profile, which should lead to more funding as it becomes more palatable to the tax payer to fork out for more modern equipment. And an Air Show on the West Coast, attended by over 100k people some of whom have travelled from as far as Cork and Donegal would be a good place to start increasing that profile. That is my point.
Post by: alpha foxtrot 07 on August 08, 2004, 06:17:35 pm
Post by: clan on August 08, 2004, 07:52:03 pm
Does the Casa's not work with the Naval Service, do the Army Especially the Ranger wing not work with the Air Corp.
Again you are missing the point, if two career minded members of the Defence forces do not know hand on heart what Equipment the Air Corp have where they use that equipment how can the General Public know and how can the purchase of new equipment be sanctioned with out public discontent. Without good PR and Public perception, and this involves sending some equipment over to an Airshow on the West Coast. That is the point been made,
Post by: FMolloy on August 09, 2004, 10:54:03 am
| Quote |
| how can the General Public know and how can the purchase of new equipment be sanctioned with out public discontent. Without good PR and Public perception, and this involves sending some equipment over to an Airshow on the West Coast. |
Firstly, the government doesn't need to consult the public about the day-to-day running of it's departments, things would be a mess otherwise.
Secondly, how can having aircraft do some fancy flying at Salthill educate the public as to the AC's real roles? The PC-9 is going to provide basic & advanced flight training to AC pilots and is an important part of the inventory, but send it to Salthill and all the public are going to see is some aerobatics.
How can a bit of fancy flying convince the average member of the public that the AC fufills a vital role?
Post by: clan on August 09, 2004, 11:10:02 pm
Post by: FMolloy on August 10, 2004, 10:21:39 am
| Quote |
| They will then know what they paid for, They will see what they have read about, simple. |
People can see the Spike in the middle of O'Connell St. They know what they've paid for there, but a lot of people still think it's a waste of money.
Not so simple.
Post by: clan on August 10, 2004, 11:13:17 am
Post by: Flyboy on August 10, 2004, 12:49:44 pm
Post by: FMolloy on August 10, 2004, 02:31:44 pm
| Quote |
| I haven't seen it but I am sure I paid for it. not so simple |
You're suggesting that if the public see what the defence budget is being spent on, they'll appreciate the purchase & become supportive of it. I'm saying that if the public condiser defence purchases as a waste of money (which a lot do) then seeing said equipment will do nothing to change their mind, especially when said equipment is engaged in something as 'frivolous' as doing aerobatics at an air show.
| Quote |
| Do we understand from your comments/views FMolloy that you think airdisplays are a waste of tax payers money |
If you had read my previous posts properly, you'd know that I don't have any such views. My point is that the AC's priority is operations, not airshows. It doesn't deserve the criticism being levelled at it here for not putting on a good enough show at Salthill.
| Quote |
| ...or just Irish taxpayers money, but it is OK if it is UK taxpayers money, like the 100,000 Irish people who watched The Red Arrows at Sligo, they didn't contribute 1 cent to their upkeep, on the otherhand as a UK taxpayer I DO, yet I didn't see them at Sligo. |
I never once mentioned the Red Arrows, I have no say in where they go or who they perform to. If you're not happy with paying for the entertainment of foreign audiences then take it up with your government rather than whinging at us.
I also never said it was a waste of taxpayer's money, try actually reading posts before getting on your high horse.
Post by: clan on August 10, 2004, 03:43:31 pm
No one is above Criticisim that includes me.
Perception is reality, they were not interested in a show on the West Coast so they did not bother with it. It is a fact.
Post by: FMolloy on August 10, 2004, 04:18:17 pm
| Quote |
| The Majority of the people would become supportive, especially if they knew we are protecting people in many nations across the world with 30 old Armoured cars for example. |
The reason that we have 30 year-old armoured vehicles is because no one in this country cares about defence. Even when the DF got the Mowags, there was complaints from many that these were 'toys for the boys' & we should be spending the money on hospitals.
In the last few years there has been much said publically on the plight of the DF, yet there has been no public outcry & no real increase in defence spending. Defence is a non-issue to the vast majority of the public.
| Quote |
| My whole point been operations aside the Aer Corp seemed not to bother with a public display or PR excerise because and this is my perception and other peoples that they could not be bothered as it was on the West Coast. No way do I accept that all aircraft bar the ones that showed up were on operational duties or in the yard for maintence. |
If the AC were not bothered because it was on the west coast then why did they turn up in past years? And have you not considered that maybe the aircrew were not available? How many were out sick? How many were performing other duties? How many were on leave? Unless you know all the facts don't be jumping to conclusions.
| Quote |
| Perception is reality, they were not interested in a show on the West Coast so they did not bother with it. It is a fact. |
What utter nonsense. Unless you can come up with evidence of the AC's suppposed apathy, there's no way you can call any of your assumptions fact.
Post by: Flyboy on August 10, 2004, 04:50:52 pm
Post by: clan on August 10, 2004, 06:10:01 pm
I certainly do not remember anyone complaining about the Mowags, but as you brought it up was this not one of my points. If people do not know what these men and Women do, for us and for other countries they will complain about money been spent as they do not understand. Educate them, and part of that process is performing to 100k people who pay taxes that can fund new purchases. If Jo Public perceive the Air Corp to be doing a good job(And they do a fantastic job, Re Lorna Siggins book)
Then maybe the Profile increases and public awareness increases and hopfully budgets increase. Not definite, but if they don't try they will never know.
How many people turned up in O Connell street for the UN parade a few years ago, and how many watched it on TV. People are interested, help educate them and make them aware. And Maybe!!!!! we will see Budgets increase.
Post by: Joey d on August 10, 2004, 10:43:33 pm
Edit: This doesnt mean that the PC-9s would have to have anything plastered on them, but the sponsorship could be in name
Post by: Silver on August 13, 2004, 06:44:35 am
Perhaps they also gave fuel at a good rate (free?) to the Swallows ?
Post by: clan on August 13, 2004, 09:23:20 am
As long as they understand there would be no advertising on the side of the aircraft.
Post by: matt_k on August 13, 2004, 10:46:31 am
Post by: matt_k on August 23, 2004, 04:41:57 pm
...I know that obviously it isn't concrete proof or anything but at least it shows that the interest is there to reform the team.
Post by: Fouga on August 24, 2004, 12:55:21 pm