Air Defence

[Shamrock145]

I was watching the BBC last night, who were showing a programme with Ewan McGregor and his brother, Colin, who is/was an RAF pilot, recounting the Battle of Britain, meeting surviving plots and flying in a two seater Spitfire (not ex-161 as far as I could gather).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00txy2q

One interesting clip, was a visit to the current RAF command and control centre (can't remember the location mentioned),  showing computerised 'radar' screens displaying tracks for all aircraft flying around Britain and Ireland and all approaches. It appeared as through the RAF were getting radar feeds from the IAA.

Now, personally, I don't have a problem with that, but does anyone know how long that arrangement has been in place?

...145

[Frank]

Could the feed be something to do with Shanwick Oceanic Control?

Shanwick Oceanic Control is shared between Shannon and Prestwick in Scotland, they may get some form of radar feed as a result of that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanwick_Oceanic_Control

Only a guess by the way...

[Shamrock145]

Possibly, but I don't think so. AFAIK, there's no radar cover in the Shanwick zone.

The representation shown on the screens during the programme was very clear, showing both Britain (London and Scotland FIR) and Ireland (Shannon FIR), so east of the Shanwick area, with all aircraft movements and boundaries.

[Ascot 1960]

Just on the U.K. Air Defence, back in the mid 70’s I made a visit to RAF Cottesmore which at the time had an underground faculty which was part of the RAF/UK Midland Radar. I remember been shown the live screens, which although was looking after military traffic for the midlands area the controller could at the flick of a switch bring up a much wider view of the U.K. and Ireland on their radar feed. As frank said even then the control was shared between Shannon and Prestwick in Scotland. Looks like Ireland came under the heading of U.K. Air Defence in the 1970s; well the cold war was still in full swing! With Russian Tupolev Tu-95s would make the odd trip down to Cuba passing through the Shannon area.
I also saw the same set up at RAF Staxton Wold which today is a Remote Radar Head (RRH) within the United Kingdom Air Surveillance and Control System (UKASACS). It’s nice they were looking after Ireland as well as the U.K.

[Tony Kearns]

Interesting post Ascot 1960. Not too sure about the looking after Ireland aspect , more like looking after UK interests.
There is nothing really new in UK radar coverage of Ireland. During the Emergency radar stations in N. Ireland and Wales had a coverage of approx. 75 miles ( from the NI Border), this would extend to the Dublin area from north or east (from Wales). The radar stations in N.Wales regularly reported the met. flights by the Air Corps and termed them as the "milk run for breakfast". Air Corps radio traffic was continually monitered as was the Coast Watching radio transmissions.
It was the mobile GCI station at Ballinderry near the shores of Lough Neagh that worked the successful interception of a Ju88 which was brought down in Co Waterford. It co-ordinated the squadrons involved in interception once the Ju88 passed Dublin tracking north and then handed over once it pssed Dublin attempting to return to France.
Regards
Tony K

[Ascot 1960]

Thanks to Tony, As always very reliable info. Btw...I was just been a little tongue in cheek about Ireland. Any way young Master Kearns keep up the good work.

[Silver]

Interesting post Ascot 1960. Not too sure about the looking after Ireland aspect , more like looking after UK interests.
There is nothing really new in UK radar coverage of Ireland. During the Emergency radar stations in N. Ireland and Wales had a coverage of approx. 75 miles ( from the NI Border), this would extend to the Dublin area from north or east (from Wales). The radar stations in N.Wales regularly reported the met. flights by the Air Corps and termed them as the "milk run for breakfast". Air Corps radio traffic was continually monitered as was the Coast Watching radio transmissions.
It was the mobile GCI station at Ballinderry near the shores of Lough Neagh that worked the successful interception of a Ju88 which was brought down in Co Waterford. It co-ordinated the squadrons involved in interception once the Ju88 passed Dublin tracking north and then handed over once it pssed Dublin attempting to return to France.
Regards
Tony K

Agreed. Very interesting post Tony! ..as ever!
When are we going to see that book Air Corps of yours?!

[Irish251]

Those of us with longer memories (or who are just plain getting old!) may recall that in about 1982 the so-called INLA blew up and damaged the ATC radar domes at Mount Gabriel in Co. Cork, on the grounds that they were feeding data to NATO.  In fact, as they are part of the Eurocontrol network and were part-financed by that organisation, it would hardly be surprising that the data would be pooled for monitoring and planning purposes.  As a secondary radar (i.e. requiring aircraft to be "squawking" with a transponder to be seen) site I assume it would not be of huge value for air defence purposes in any case.  Here's an interesting link to a 1983 Seanad debate on ATC and aviation issues: http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/S/0102/S.0102.198312140006.html